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Request: Bee-Specific Template

template organization

40 replies to this topic

#21
felinoel

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Then that's why you got a bee product that doesn't usually come from the type of bee that the Queen looks like. Produce not a trait you can separate from the species, but you can temporarily make a strain that gets more than one type (at half efficiency?) by using Hybrids.  Unfortunately hybrids are inherently unstable and don't breed true, which makes them less than useful for automated production.

Yep, I was talking about that.
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#22
Embri

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That's not altering Produce through breeding, it's just giving a Queen the produce of two different species temporarily.  There's no way, for example, to get Cultivated Bees to make Royal Jelly or Diamond Bees to prefer Cold/Damp (though you can get them to work in Cold/Damp with tolerances).  Unlike most of the bee traits where you can shuffle them around at will.  

 

Anyone got Swarmers to work before?  I've loaded a test Alveary with eight of them, all packed with Royal Jelly, but have yet to see one of these "Swarm Hives" appear... hrm. 

 

 

Edit: Just as I post this, one has appeared at last!



#23
felinoel

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That's not altering Produce through breeding, it's just giving a Queen the produce of two different species temporarily.

Temporarily or not, the Produce was altered through breeding...?
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#24
Embri

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But, it's not.  It's still tied to the species - If you make a Cultivated-Tropical, the Cultivated is still going to make Honey Comb, the Tropical is still going to make Silky Comb.  That's all I meant.   Don't want to give people the idea that they can change what their bees produce by selective breeding, because it doesn't work the way most of the other traits do.  



#25
felinoel

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But, it's not.  It's still tied to the species - If you make a Cultivated-Tropical, the Cultivated is still going to make Honey Comb, the Tropical is still going to make Silky Comb.  That's all I meant.   Don't want to give people the idea that they can change what their bees produce by selective breeding, because it doesn't work the way most of the other traits do.

It doesn't work the same, but it does work.
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#26
timrem

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So, bringing this back to discussing whether or not a bee's Product should appear in the infobox: I would say yes, it should. Each article covers the details of a specific species of bee, and the Product is determined 100% by the species. The fact that hybrid bees can produce the Products from both constituent species can be noted in the article about breeding if it isn't already. As long as a bee has been run through a Beealyzer, it is readily apparent whether one or two species is in play.



#27
Artsja

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I've been sitting on a code for production speed tooltips for a good while now, finally got around to finishing and implementing it. You can see the changes on Template:Bee. The only issue I'm having is that I couldn't align the spans to each image. So if you have multiple products, all of the production speed tooltips appear at the same absolute position (see here). It's not the most ideal thing but it works. Thoughts/Suggestions?

 

I also think products should be kept on the Bee template, for the reasons listed above. Those are very solid arguments.


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#28
felinoel

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So, bringing this back to discussing whether or not a bee's Product should appear in the infobox: I would say yes, it should. Each article covers the details of a specific species of bee, and the Product is determined 100% by the species. The fact that hybrid bees can produce the Products from both constituent species can be noted in the article about breeding if it isn't already. As long as a bee has been run through a Beealyzer, it is readily apparent whether one or two species is in play.

I think we all were saying it should.
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#29
Embri

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Agreed, Produce belongs in the infobox, along with anything else that is species-linked.  



#30
Ora_the_Owlish

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Looking at the recent changes to the bee template, it seems there's no option to add a picture of the bee? While I understand that all bees look rather similar, it seems like a bit of a departure from other item templates. Just a thought. It looks great otherwise! :)



#31
Artsja

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The image is added automatically if one is available. :) It's the same for the regular item template. You don't need to specify it. There is an image-parameter though if a custom image is necessary. Most of the time that is not the case though.



#32
Embri

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I've been looking at the template on the Forest Bee page for a while, and decided to see what it looked like with sprites instead of a list of further mutations.  Thoughts?  

 

http://ftbwiki.org/User:Embri

http://ftbwiki.org/Forest_Bee

 

Pro: it's shorter with lists over three bees, easier to spot a potential species not yet created

Con: Doesn't give the actual names without mouse-over, maybe a bit gaudy?  Doesn't show if the page exists or not due to lack of link color. 

 

Not sure if I like it or not anymore.  *chintap*



#33
timrem

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I'm not sure Descendants should be included in the template at all. In my opinion, it's too spoilery and should only be included in the collapsed 'Mutations' section of the article. And since neither method of displaying them looks great, removing the field from the infobox could be an improvement.



#34
Embri

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They are rather spoiler-y (and yes the purpose of a wiki is indeed spoilers, but I'd like to honor the wishes of the mod-maker and ensure that anyone who simply stumbles on a page doesn't get to see something they'd have rather discovered on their own.)   The mod gives you pretty much all the bee information once you have bred it at least once (produce, habitat, number of drones, traits, etc) but never reveals mutations until you find them or use creative to cheat in a Flora-in-a-Box. 

 

I'll go monkey around with the Forest Bee page and see if I can get it working a bit better.

 

Edit:

So I've changed the "possible descendants" to the number of species instead of a listing, the listing in the Further Mutations section has been expanded with % chance to get the mutation, and culled all the text links, added images for all the species.  I'm not sure if it looks better with or without text links to be honest, anyone want to give an opinion?



#35
Embri

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I've added a new template for the genetics section for bee pages, which should hopefully make it easier to keep things standardized (and update the formatting if necessary without editing the hundreds of bee pages individually.)  Anyone know if there's a conditional that evaluates given data?  For example, if fertility>1, put "s" at the end of "Drone".  Right now it's just "Drone(s)" because I don't know if what I'm thinking of is possible or not. 

 

Would the Breeding / Mutation sections benefit from a similar template?  I'm not even sure if it's feasible.



#36
timrem

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You can use the ParserFunction #ifexpr to evaluate an expression, but for this I used #ifeq, where a value of '1' drops the 's', and anything else keeps it. #ifexpr would throw big red text up if someone left fertility blank or used any letters in that field, so I figured #ifeq would be cleaner.

 

For the breeding/mutation sections, a template would work if you keep it simple, and have it handle just one pair of bees at a time. You could then include it howevermany times you need to cover the different pairings. The template would get either complicated or rather large if you try to capture data like that on the chart for Forest Bees, with one bee type paired to multiple others in the same row. Should be doable though. You'd need the template to have at least 9 parameters just for the list of possible mates (more, if there's a bee more promiscuous than the Forest Bee).



#37
Embri

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Thank you for fixing that!  I figured there was probably some simple way to do it, but had no idea how.

 

*chintap* the only really long set of breeding possibilities is where wild/hive bees are involved, any of them can sub in for any other one.  That might be able to be handled with its own mini-template or something, but the Further Mutations table is a lot more dynamic and complicated than genetics, where every species has the same options and always has information for each variable.  

 

Don't want the whole thing to be unwieldy or hard to edit, that would rather ruin the purpose of templating it in the first place.



#38
hypermice

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Hello! I am new here, and I went off editing lots of pages before thinking to search the forums for any input =/

 

I added a bunch of new pages for Bee species, as well as some of the missing ones for Flyer/Temp. Tol./ Etc. I added a page on "Hive bees" and any place I saw the list of possibilities (like for making common bees) I just put that it requires a hive bee. That page has a list of what a hive bee is for Forestry as well as Extra Bees. I think it is a good solution to that particular issue.

 

I used the Bee template I found on the pages, and I thought it a bit odd that it had a "Source breeding pair" and "descendants" section, but I filled them all out. Should I go back and change them all? I tend to go all-spoilers, so I like them there, but I bet not everyone does. 

 

My plan is/was to add the side table bee template for all bee pages, then go back and add all the centrifuge stuff, then all the original traits, etc. I have the time/energy/motivation to do all the work, just point me in the right place =P



#39
Embri

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I've sort of been holding off making individual bee pages because we don't as of yet have a full layout/template set down.  There's nothing wrong per se. with going ahead, though it may end up that some of your efforts have to be done over.  Such is the nature of a Wiki, though. : ) 

 

The side tables and centrifuge / produce are probably a good place to start, since (I think?) we've pretty much got them hashed out.  The source pair tag/percentage from the Infobox is probably ready to be retired, since that information belongs in the article itself (under breeding) and would be spoilers.  Descendants is fine, but should just be a total count of how many further mutations there are.  

 

There's also a template for Genetics now, you can grab it off the Diamond Bee page:

http://ftbwiki.org/Diamond_Bee



#40
Artsja

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Hi there hypermice! It's always great to see more contributors. Hope to see you around.

 

I think Embri already covered most of your questions. I removed the possible source breeding pair/chance from the template now. As it was already mentioned, that is the sort of information which definitely requires a spoiler tag. It's better to have that only in the article.

 

Thanks for helping out with the wiki hypermice. Make sure to also check out the Style Guide if you haven't yet.

 

In regards to the general layout/page setup, I think the Diamond and the Forest bee pages are good points of reference by now... I can't really think of anything big that's missing from them off the top of my head. ((Well, aside from a family tree perhaps and possibly a template for the mutations, although that seems like more of a commodity to me))





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